並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/201-%E7%BE%8E%E5%BC%8F-%E8%8B%B1%E5%BC%8F%E5%8F%B8%E5%BA%B7%E5%85%B6%E5%AF%A6%E4%B8%8D%E5%A4%AA%E4%B8%80%E6%A8%A3-%E8%A8%AA%E8%AB%87-part-4/id1462457142?i=1000537899158&l=ru