並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E6%88%80%E6%88%80%E6%9B%BE%E6%96%87%E6%BA%AA-78%E8%BD%89%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E5%BB%A3%E6%92%AD%E5%8A%87/id1581354245